A Candid Conversation with Singer/Songwriter Michael Land

Joe Costello: Hey, welcome to the Joe Costello Show. I’m really excited today to have a special guest, my buddy and super talented singer songwriter guitarist Michael Land, who lives here in Phoenix. And welcome, man. Really glad to have you here.

Michael: What’s up, man. I’m I’m honored to be on the first show. Man,

Joe Costello: Yeah. Finally,

Michael: I feel pretty honored,

Joe Costello: We get to do this

Joe Costello: Yeah,

Michael: I know we’ve been talking about a long time.

Joe Costello: Man, we’ve talked a lot about a lot of things for a long time

Michael: [laughs]

Joe Costello: Finally, we’re gettin’ stuff done. We’re not lettin’ anything get in our way.

Michael: Come on, let’s do this.

Joe Costello: Yeah. All right. So what I wanted to do is literally like start from the beginning. So I want you to take me back to the beginning and give the listeners an idea on how this all started for you. You know, you can start with well, you know, what was your first instrument? Or maybe you started singing,  you didn’t even have a first instrument. But I just want to start, you know, give at least the foundation of where all this began.

Michael: Yeah. No, I appreciate it. And I think they take this a couple of seconds, which is, first of all, tell you thank you for your friendship and what you’ve meant to me and my family, man. You know, you’ve really helped be a catalyst for me in Phoenix. You know, I’m providing a lot of valuable income and opportunities and relationships and just being a great friend on this journey for me. And I just wanted to throw you some love and respect and say how much I appreciate you and just what a joy it’s been to to work with you, man. And I say that we’re going to think a lot of artists, a lot of musicians. We feel like we have to do it all on our own. And we kind

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Of get a little bit like, you know, I’ve got to I’ve got to be super successful just on my own and be, you know, Mr. Independent, Mrs. Independent, you know, or whatever that mentality. But a man you’ve really given me hope that I can build the team and and it takes a team to to make dreams come true. And you anyway, I just want to get too long winded with that, bro. But I don’t have enough love for you, man. I really do. You know, I can’t. I can tell you enough how much I appreciate you. But anyway, man, I’ll start at the beginning.

Joe Costello: Appreciate that, you can’t just say that and then not let me thank you. No, I appreciate it. Thank you!

Michael: You bet, man. You bet. It’s important to lay that foundation, but as far as musically goes, man, I sang my first solo when I was 7 years old. You know I grew up in church. And when I was 7 years old, I sang a solo in church in front of this little church in a little town called Anahuac, Texas in southern Texas and ah man talk about backwoods man country. They like the alligator capital of Texas and they’re really proud of it. And there’s only a couple of thousand people in this town. [laugheter] I grew up there and I just started singing ah singing in church. And then when I was about 11 or twelve, I got a leading role in a community play, community musical, Oliver Twist. And I was all over it, man. And it was a big deal. Umm and it was a good experience, man. You know, I remember the lady that was the the director. I was singing through my parts and I was in front of everybody. And she said, no, young man, you need to sing from right here. And she punched me in the gut. And it was it wasn’t a hard punch, but it was I wasn’t ready for it. And it hit my stomach. And then I continued to try to sing, you know, and I was like, half crying. And I sing [laughter] I’m like singing but like, but it was a the real world of, hey. You got to perform, you got to do with confidence, you got belted out, you know. And I’ll never forget that. And it really was a gift because, you know, those three nights, you know, me coming out at the end, it taken a bow people standing ovation and and be like, wow, I just did what I loved. And people liked it. It’s crazy.

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: It was crazy for me. So. So that was a little taste of man. I think I want to do this the rest of my life, even though probably really wasn’t thinking that. It just felt good. It felt right. And it was natural. It was authentic. And then I started writing music when I was 14…ummm

Joe Costello: Wow.

Michael: And I remember it hit me kind of like a wave. And I didn’t know how to write music. And I didn’t have a way to record my music. So I would just put a little hash marks, I guess, similar to music notes [scats] Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah nah] You know, as I’m whatever I was singing, I would like to hash marks up if it was going higher, hash marks down, you know. So I would try to remember the melodies of these songs. And I remember writing in a notepad in my little bedroom, you know, make making music at 14. And and, you know, and that just I kept doing that. Keep writing music and growing up in church. It’s interesting because Ryan Tedder with One Republic. We have a little similar background and that we both grew up singing music in church. And I agree with what he says. He says that that, you know, when you grow up writing church music, you learn how to write a hook because by the second the chorus hits, you want everybody singing along with you, you know, it’s because

Joe Costello: Yes.

Michael: It’s congregational.

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: And so and so you want to write something that’s that’s catchy and it’s singable, you know, and simple. And so he, he you know, he’ll tell anybody, learn how to write hooks, you know, writing a church music. And that’s really where I started and how this began and for me, too. And then, you know, moved into college and I was always on stage. And um…couldn’t get away from saying it, man. You know, that’s this is the big, big part of what I do. And that led to them saying, man, it’s been a few years, brother trying to, trying to get back here [laughs]

Joe Costello: [laughs]

Michael: The beginnings if it

Joe Costello: You’re too young to loose your memory man

Michael: Knock, knock the dust off some some of these years. But, you know, I met my wife at college. I went

Joe Costello: Well, when did you pick up the guitar?

Michael: Ok, so that was that was in late high school, I started

Joe Costello: Ok.

Michael: Mess around with it. I actually quit guitar lessons at 14. My parents were paying for it and they bought me

Joe Costello: Ok.

Michael: A 100 dollar guitar and I kick myself because of it because I know I’d be a lot better, ah you know. But, you know, I was I was acting man. I was singing all the time. I was on stage doing a lot of stuff. And so I can’t put it down the picked it back up in college. And what motivated me to, to keep playing guitar, was because I wanted to accompany myself as a singer,

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: You know. So it’s always been the singing that’s kind of driven

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Everything. Everything I’ve done. And so from there now, my wife and I got married in college. I worked for a church um and, you know, I was on staff at a church doing music and doing some teaching. And that’s what I went to school for. And then I got an opportunity to audition for a group called “New Song”. And this was a really big contemporary Christian group. They’ve been around about twenty five years. And a cousin of mine had been doing the lighting for them while they were on tour and he said “Hey man, they got an opening”. And so, you know, we were in Missouri at the time. My wife and I drove with our little baby when we had one kid. We have five now you can see it in the picture, ah yeah we collected a few kids along the way and they got bigger. But anyway, so we drove the Nashville man and auditioned for this group called “New Song” and they said, we want you on tour. And so I literally…they did these big tours and I still don’t recall winter jam to take about 10 artists and they charge a really cheap ah, door fee. So people get it for cheap and they all these big artists and they’re in these arenas so literally, my first concert in, in the real music industry was in front of eight thousand five hundred people. I

Joe Costello: Wow.

Michael: Stepped in and, you know, because they had a couple of lead singers. And so I step right in and I literally the words to this song that I was singing that I had a solo for was on the monitor. I could see my face on the Megatron screen. [laughs] I was so nervous, man. I just got thrown right into the fire and it was a tour bus that was on tour. It was that I think the Bi-Lo center in somewhere in South Carolina. But yeah, I just remember there being a great thousand people there. Well, here we go,

Joe Costello: Man!

Michael: And so I was on tour away from home to three weeks at a time. I did that for about six months. That was cool. It was like radio interviews. I sang background vocals on the next album and they had plans to put me on the album. But at about the six month mark, being away from my family to three weeks at a time, I wasn’t ready for the road man. And so, we had baby baby number two comin’ and so I decided to get off the road. And I auditioned for a 50’s show in Branson, Missouri, the little town in Missouri. And they got about 100 plus live shows that they do. And that’s kind of a tourism spot for the Midwest. And I was able

Joe Costello: Isn’t

Michael: To.

Joe Costello: It? Isn’t it like the Vegas of the South or something like that?

Michael: It kinda is man

Joe Costello: I think my parents vacationed there

Michael: Oh yeah man

Joe Costello: Yeah, yeah

Michael: Oh, yeah, they have a lot of stuff going to get a big theme park, Gold, Silver Dollar City. And so it’s a pretty, pretty big deal, man. So for the next four years, I was able to sing fifties music for living with a live band behind me and and see my family at night, you know, and do music, you know. So I was a professional singer, singer, dancer actually had to get my dance on, bro. [laughs] I never I never danced…

Joe Costello: I’ll pay. I’ll pay to see those clips.

Michael: Bro! I had never I never danced in my life. Maz’s a little church boy. Man, you know, I me like the most that I did was in a church choir. Maybe that little little step touch a little sway.

Joe Costello: Oh my God…

Michael: That had that I had and learn how to dance. And throw these girls I’m literally flipping girls behind my back

Joe Costello: Oh my gosh…

Michael: Doin’ all those, you know, all those those tricks. But once I got it, man, I know I was obviously the most improved dancer by the time show number one hit, like I had done like hours of dancing in the kitchen to get ready because I like I wanted to be able to sing and and do this for a living because it was just cool, man. It’s you know, it’s awesome. And so I got it. And it I felt like, you know, Gene, Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire,

Joe Costello: Nice.

Michael: Like

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: These guys that did all the musicals.

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: It felt great and what end up being a really great experience and did that for four years, man. And then the economy crashed in 0 8, 0 9 and they shut it down and all the shows and a um, a lot of them. And so that well, you know, we had four kids and baby number five is on the way. And we literally sold, sold everything we had. I borrowed my brother in law’s pop-up camper and we drove the Nashville to pursue the dream and ah we lived in a camper and lived with friends. And, you know, I worked three to four jobs and gigs at night. And I mean, I was singing demos for producers, you know, for, for songwriters and just doing everything that I could and trying to write with people. And I was a valet parker, I was stocking groceries. You know, I was trying to sell insurance. I was like, I’m doing everything I possibly could. And we were, we were there for a couple years. Um and ah, and I found…

Joe Costello: Well, let me ask you this…

Michael: Yeah. Yeah, go ahead.

Joe Costello: At

Michael: Because it’s.

Joe Costello: At this stage, this is important question for me to ask you

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: Ah, when you said you were there to kind of go after the dream. Right.

Michael: Yup!

Joe Costello: The quote, “dream” with air quotes.

Michael: Right.

Joe Costello: Right. For anybody

Michael: Right.

Joe Costello: Listening to this audio wise, a lot of times that does come with touring. So the fact that you had four kids, one on the way and you had already realized that the touring life wasn’t for you. What did you think? How did you think you were going to maneuver around not having to tour if you got picked up by a record label or whatever?

Michael: Right. Well, I think at that point I was just hoping to build the right relationships. You know, being in Nashville and being a singer and songwriter, you know, I was open that I was open that if it could be ah man, if it could be through the songwriting world. Cool! You know, maybe maybe to open up that way, get a publishing deal or something. But I was just more, more concerned about proximity being around other musicians and other opportunities. And yeah, I learned from the new song experience of being on tour ah, um, and had learned a lot from, from gettin’ to do a show like that at Branson. But the hunger to write music that was actually starting a gig, I didn’t mention that. But when I played my first gig as a singer songwriter while I was in Branson, was it like a coffee shop?

Joe Costello: Ah ha…

Michael: And so that’s when I started gigging, you know, as a as an artist myself. And that’s what really motivated me to go ahead and move to the Nashville area. But, yeah, I really wasn’t in my mind. We were just taking it as it came, in a lot of ways, you know, but. Yeah, but there’s no doubt that having a family, being married, being committed to these things. You know, I have always played a big part in everything. I’m even, you know, even having a wife that’s willing to pick up and move cross country like that with

Joe Costello: Um ha…

Michael: With all these kids. You know, says a lot about my wife. And she’s really is a lot more entrepreneurial and driven her just naturally than me and a big driving force. But I think we’re just taking it as it as it can grow. I really, really do.

Joe Costello: So it was one of the questions that I had was about…I remember you and I having a conversation about you moving a lot. And I think just based on the fact of what you just explained, you’ve sort of answered that question. It was about following the dream and, and having to go to where you thought the opportunities would exist. And obviously going from Branson to some place like Nashville was an obvious choice.

Michael: Yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah, big time, I think, influenced by the idea of like we need to make the right connections. I need to get around some people that are doing this on on the scale that I want to do it on. You know,

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: A bigger,

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: Bigger scale. And it’s really been about authenticity to, you know, from my wife and I. And that’s even, even today’s even bigger than ever. But yeah, I really was. It was a driving force for sure with all, with all these moves.

Joe Costello: Right. OK. And then. So when did you get to Phoenix, when did you

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: Say it? Was it when things. Yes. So tell me

Michael: Yeah, yeah…

Joe Costello: When that happened.

Michael: So I’ll…make some quick I’ll make some quick jumps. We stayed in Nashville a couple years, my father and mother in law came down to visit us and they they were in Alaska at the time. That’s where my wife was born and she got a lot of family there and he was doing construction work. He’s a plumber. And I found out what they were making a lot of these government jobs. And I said, WOW!, you know, we were like, man, I could work for him for about a year and we could pay off a lot of debt and then maybe move somewhere where we could plant some roots forever. And so. So we did that, man. I love Nashville, but I really wanted, I needed to make more money. I needed to do some things for my family. So we moved from Nashville to Alaska and lived in Alaska. One year bro, I mean, it’s, it’s some big jumps, man.

Joe Costello: Man!

Michael: And our our youngest was one. Matter of fact, the week we moved there, he learned to walk. Toby, our youngest.

Joe Costello: Wow!

Michael: So anyway, we worked for a year. And, you know, I was in crawlspaces and you had a ranch in my hand and working, you know, building, building medical clinics, you know, and some of these Eskimo villages. And it was a great experience. There’s only so much singing you can do in the crawl space, my friend. [laughter] At some point I was like, my God, I’ve got to sing again man.

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: And ah…

Joe Costello: Exactly.

Michael: And so and so at that point, I was open to anything. And I honestly, I didn’t think I’d be back. I go back to church work even that’s kind of where I started. But I was looking online and there was a church in Scottsdale that had a music director position and. And they were looking for somebody that was a little soulful. And I was like, all right! You know, some of the description was kind of describin’ me. And that’s, you know, they paid for our move. They flew us out as an entire family. And I don’t know how I would’ve got all the way down to Phoenix, the Phoenix area, had they not helped us out. And so that was such a blessing. And we literally went from icy cold, dark Alaska to sunny Scottsdale…

Joe Costello: Amazing!

Michael: The pastor out was working for he was the chaplain for the Phoenix Suns. so I’m literally I got my guitar on and I’m walkin’ into the sun’s arena like I’m singing for the NBA guys and like, you know, what is this man! Like out of nowhere, going from a crawlspace to singing again was really cool. And I did that for about four years. And then I stepped down five years ago to sing for everybody to

Joe Costello: Yup!

Michael: Really keep pursuing the artist. And that’s how I got to know you and the relationships. And that’s that’s where we end up, you know, where we are today. But I was about nine years ago. Since we

Joe Costello: Yeah and I think…

Michael: Moved here…

Joe Costello: I think when you step down from the church is pretty much right, when I met you, I think

Michael: Yeah, I think it was close to…

Joe Costello: Because we had a conversation about how you were gonna just go a little bit more mainstream and.

Michael: Mm hmm.

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Costello: That’s cool,

Michael: It’s

Joe Costello: So. So…

Joe Costello: The I guess the, the take away from where we are in the conversation right now is that your, your wife’s a good woman. She actually just wherever wherever your world took you, she. She’s like,

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: Ok, let’s do this.

Michael: Hey, I love giving her credit, bro. I love, you know. Get back to her. Because again, you know, I I’m a little more compliant. Hey, tell me what to do. She’s more create something to do. You know, like

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: She’s she’s been more driven like that. And every time I get discouraged, she kind of just says, go sing, you know…

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: And sure enough, I come home and I’m like, man, I love what I do. You know, like this is I’m supposed to do this. And yeah. And so we and we still almost every day and we have conversations about what are we creating? What’s ya know, I had a good business friend of mine say, what’s what’s your lowest hanging fruit? What is it that you can take and you can monetize? And um that’s always been my voice. And we’re having a lot of a lot of conversations right now, man. He’s got a lot of time on our hands

Joe Costello: Yeah,

Michael: Ah, to work on this stuff.

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Yes. She’s she’s amazing man, really thankful, really takes a team. And she’s been she’s been my team all the way through, bro. And

Joe Costello: No I get it!

Michael: We counted man. 19 moves, man. I’m not kidding. We’ve been married 18 years. A lot of that was moving from one house. The next, we were buying

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: Houses for a little bit before the economy. And ah but, you know, three those were major cross-country moves. And, you know.

Joe Costello: Yeah. Yeah, I know she’s a good woman. I know she’s tough, too, because I think I’m the nicest guy in the world and she was like, I don’t know. You sure you want to, you want to do the whole thing with Joe and Onstage…

Michael: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, man.

Joe Costello: I know we’re still in the we’re still dating at this point.

Michael: Oh and now we’re all, we’re all in, man. We’re all in

Joe Costello: Ok.

Michael: She just she just said, you know, just don’t sign anything. You

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: Know, you promise me you’re not gonna sign a they as

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: A hey, you know, a handshake. A handshake is as good with Joe

Joe Costello: Yup!

Michael: Because of our relationship as anything, you know.

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: And and so we know, you know, we know we know what’s up. And so. Yeah, so that’s that’s been good. And that’s been a good trust building experience. And and it’s everything we have done is lined up with our goals.

Joe Costello: Good!

Michael: You know, it’s fun.

Joe Costello: Yeah. Well, I’m happy. It makes me happy, too. So, so if we if I go to one of my questions here, it was about when did you make the leap to a full time musician? So would have that been when you left being the musical director at the church?

Michael: Yeah, I would say so when out when I really ah started getting more focused about a business plan, you know,

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: And again, a lot of that is still I still struggle with some of that and I let my emotions get involved too much rather than really stay focused on the business side, you know, but but it really yeah, it was five years ago when I kind of stripped away everything that was comfortable. And even though it was great and was thankful, you know, that that gave me a foundation in Phoenix to have a job like that. Yeah, it was time, time to

Joe Costello: So

Michael: Grow up in

Joe Costello: Around

Michael: a lot of ways.

Joe Costello: 2015 you’re saying is when you went…

Michael: Yup!

Joe Costello: OK, cool. Alright. So this is this is an important question. And you I talked about this before and I think this is going to be super helpful for anybody that listens to this. What do you attribute to the current success that you are having? And I know what it is based on all the entertainers that I get to see and

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: Deal with and how they respond and all of that. But I kind of want to hear your…I don’t want to be the person that dictates what I

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: Think makes it. You know, you’re you’re doing it. You know, you’re over 250

Michael: Appreciate it.

Joe Costello: Shows a year. Right. So you’re

Michael: Correct

Joe Costello: Doin’ it

Michael: Right.

Joe Costello: It. So what do you know your opinion as as a performer as opposed to me as like the booking agent guy?

Michael: Yeah. Well, I think it’s a. It’s so funny, man, I just I just thought it is three things, but it’s actually an acronym CAR, C.A.R., consistency, attitude and relationships. You know, look,

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Car. What car you going to drive? You know, I’m literally just thinking this is

Joe Costello: That’s

Michael: [laugh]

Joe Costello: Yeah, that’s awesome! [laughs]

Michael: My my car has been. See, consistancy, attitude and relationships. And obviously, I know I have talent. I love to sing. I’ve been told that all of my life. So at this point in my career, it’s not like I’m trying to decide or figure out if I’m talented at this or not. You know, so that’s the talent has already been established. That was when I was young. But, but it’s the C.A.R.. It’s that it’s this is the vehicle that I’m driving is consistency, attitude and relationships…hands-down!

Joe Costello: You know what? I wish you can add an extra “R” to that because

Michael: Ok.

Joe Costello: This I would say responsiveness

Michael: Yeah!

Joe Costello: Cause that to me…it’s literally the most pain that I get, on my side, it’s just like, hey, I have a gig, can you let me know if you can do it or not?

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: And that’s just crickets for the longest. It’s like

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: I’m handing you work. I just need to know if you can do it. And

Michael: Right.

Joe Costello: Yet you and I are just back and forth, ya know, when when stuff when we need

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: To work on stuff, it’s just boom, boom, boom. We get it done and we’re on, you know.

Michael: Yeah. Well, it is. It could be another hour, could be under that consistency. That’s a part

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Of the consistency

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: That you have to bring as you have to be consistently in communication

Joe Costello: Yep.

Michael: With whoever you’re working with. And then when you get to our low where we’re working at these these really high end events with massive clients, you know, are I mean, they’re you know, they’re big names on the stock market. You know, it’s like some of these companies that we’re working with. So it’s like,

Joe Costello: Yep,

Michael: You know, you have to be communicating. You got to be consistent.

Joe Costello: Yup!

Michael: So I totally get it, man. Good point.

Joe Costello: Cool to hear it. This is the opposite side of it because we talked about what what has made you successful and what we both agree on. But what do you think causes so many musicians to fall short on being able to sustain themselves as a working musician?

Michael: I think I would probably start with expectation having an expectation that it’s supposed to look a certain way. If all you do is compare yourself to an artist on the radio and there’s a little bit of a of an artist’s ego, you know, or entitlement, then I think that keeps a lot of people from, from really breaking through. I’ll give example if you don’t mind.

Joe Costello: No…

Michael: Expound on that. During this last five years. Because I’ve always been struggling. Who am I as an artist? You know, I could go all these different stylistically, these different ways. And even in my song list. I’ve got, you know, from Frank Sinatra to Otis Redding to Maroon 5 to Tom Petty. You know, I’m saying you have to be flexible with who you have on your song list. But like, I can go a lot of different directions. But whenever I put my the expectations of what I was expecting everybody to make me into or, you know, the success I was expected to have and I put that on the shelf and I just said, you know what? I’m just going to sing and I’m going to give my gift to this community the very best of my ability. And, and just started going for just started saying yes to everything initially and getting out there. Then you really do you know what you like and don’t like what works and don’t work. I’m not a real heavy dance band kind of guy. You know, I work real well in the corporate and, you know, the resort setting, you know, because I can if I need to soften, I can if I need bring a little energy, I can do that for sure. But, you know, you learn these things along the way. But, man, when I put the artist eagle on the shelf and I just started saying yes to the things right in front of me, it opened doors and it opened a door so big it blew my mind because I have a friend that knows Rob Thomas and um and you know this whole story of Joe but a few months ago, I opened for Rob Thomas in Tucson in front of over 3000

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: People. And that

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Was completely out of the blue. I had no idea that my buddy knew him and his management. And when they were looking for a local Arizona artist, he thought of me, gave them my website. When they saw that I was busy, that I was working, you know, and I was doing my thing. And the website looked good, everything, you know, was there. They asked me, you know, and I don’t know if I drew any body. You know, I got, you know, say like my drawers in Phoenix. I don’t have much in Tucson, but he didn’t need anybody. He was a packed house anyway. You know,

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: It was just clearly random. And just like I felt like a little blessing that I got the opportunity. And again, confirmation that, you know what, just do what you do and, an opportunity. The doors will open, but you have to be willing to put that expectation on the shelf. And the artist ego and just put the nose to the grind and go

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: For it. Now, now, there’s nothing wrong with having goals. You know, I’ve got some artist goals. But, but that attitude of entitlement and artist ego and the expectation of what success is supposed to look like and you put that on the shelf. And to me, that’s opened opened a big door for me.

Joe Costello: Yeah, that’s really cool, and I think it actually comes back full circle to you talking about being authentic, you stay authentic to yourself and and doors open up and you don’t have to worry about all the other things.

Michael: Right.

Joe Costello: Yeah, that’s

Michael: Exactly,

Joe Costello: Cool.

Michael: Man.

Joe Costello: Yeah. So I did have the whole Rob Thomas thing on here, but you just just stole the whole question from me. [laughter] So. So, no, it’s cool. They get

Michael: Nah…

Joe Costello: The time. It was perfect. It was perfect.

Michael: Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe Costello: How you sequed into it, it’s like.

Michael: It felt like it had flow so, I went with it, man. I

Joe Costello: Yeah,

Michael: this is kind of flow and I’m going to I’m going to roll with it.

Joe Costello: Yeah. No, it’s perfect. [laughter] I wanted to find about find out actually because you mentioned Rob Thomas. Oh. Before I do that. So how many shows a year do you think you are actually performing at this point?

Michael: So so now before we met see last year, I was 250ish in that range

Joe Costello: Ok.

Michael: And now my goal is to get it to two hundred, two twenty five, but

Joe Costello: Yep.

Michael: But focus more on quality than quantity.

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: And now I’m set up to do that with my relationship with you and what you’re able to to help me with and yeah, so that that’s kind of the goal. And then, you know, it’s interesting because the more I do online, though, is some of that lower hanging fruit idea of my voice and what I’ve done and you the singing program that I’ve developed. And yeah, I it may end up hopefully being even less than that. Focusing more on on quality.

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: If some of this online stuff can start spent in a way that I wanted to. With subscription website and ever things like that. Yes. It’s been between two hundred, two fifty for sure on average.

Joe Costello: Right. And just to clarify for the listeners so they understand that part of my role in this is being, you know, being the owner of on-stage Entertainment Group and you working as an exclusive artist with us. But when you’re talking about. Excuse me, cutting down on the number, because most people would say, OK, now that you have an agency, you’re you know, you should go and get more work. But our goal, you know, mutually between you and I, is that we want them to be more quality gigs, higher paying gigs, so that you can spend less time out there playing just average gigs and being away from your family. And then you can devote more time to your singing program, which is the part I’m going to get to next. Because you keep mine. You’re like a mind reader. You keep going to my next [laughter] my, I know how you do it, but you know, it’s all good. It’s perfect.

Michael: Nice,

Joe Costello: So

Michael: Nice, nice.

Joe Costello: Before we get to this singing program, because that’s what’s coming next is I don’t want to keep you too long. It is besides Rob Thomas. Have there been any other, let’s say, quote, famous, you know, openings that you’ve done?

Michael: Man, I open for a lady and she’s got a unique name, I forget her name now, but this is a year and a half to two years ago, probably opened for her at Tempe Center for Performing Arts.

Joe Costello: Ok.

Michael: And she is a she’s a smooth jazz singer,

Joe Costello: Ok.

Michael: So she’s in that smooth jazz circuit.

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: She background singer for Stevie Wonder, Bill Withers, like Lou Rawls, like all of these big epic Motown guys. You know, she toured with them for years and years. And yeah, I got to know her people, got to open and that, that was a really, that was, that was an eye opener for me. A couple of years

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: Ago, because it her demographic was a perfect fit for the more soulful pop stuff that I’ve been been writing. And yeah, I mean, besides that, you know, not really. You know, it’s been more.

Joe Costello: No, it’s cool, I just

Michael: It’s

Joe Costello: I just,

Michael: Been more stay stay at home. You know,

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Focus, focus on the daily grind and and, you know, it’s been fun to build a fan base through these consistent residency gigs and things that are happening in town and the joy and satisfaction of building a fan base organically and

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: Not trying to again, trying to think, how can I get the biggest opening opportunity or, you know, the, the you know, an immediate million followers. And, you know, it’s but it’s been like. All right. What’s the next step?

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: Yeah. So that’s, you know, a couple of opportunities. But but not, not a whole lot of big massive openings, but. Yeah, that’s kinda how it’s been.

Joe Costello: But the one thing that you have done a fair amount of that, you know, in, in my intro notes, I’ll, I’ll mention this, but you’ve done the national anthem for Major League Baseball games, right?

Michael: Yeah, yeah. MLB and NBA

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Um and then ah for the big Barrett-Jackson car auction

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: Every year for their opening art auction, you know. I do that. And yeah. That’s, that’s been cool, man. That’s, that’s been really a great, a great experience in that… It’s interesting because a lot, lot of these bigger opportunities, they don’t come very often. But if you collect them all together and you let them be like data, it’s like information, like confirmation that, you know what, I have something that’s at a level where I can sing in front of 35,000 people at the D-Backs game

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: And they’ve entrusted me to do that. That says something. And it’s and again, I think every artist needs to take time to collect that data, you know, and and make collect earlier for some or for me, you know, in my 30s and 40s. You know, I’ve been collecting some really important data. And, you know, I don’t feel like I’m, I’m too old to do this thing. I don’t care what the gatekeepers or whoever in the music industry say about your artist career. What I’ve learned, I wouldn’t trade, you know, and it’s been

Joe Costello: Yeah,

Michael: At the right time for me,

Joe Costello: Yeah,

Michael: You know. So it’s it’s been a cool process.

Joe Costello: Yeah. It’s cool, it’s you know, it sounds like you’re living with no regrets. Which is kind of cool. You know, you don’t worry about that. You didn’t accomplish certain things at certain times in your life. You’re just letting it happen the way it happens in it and it feels good. And, you know, I have to tell you, man, I got the feedback from that, one of the corporate clients that you recently did the national anthem at, and he was like, you know. And I believe it was a very male, um, the audience was mostly men and and the my contact who I worked with on the event to get ready for it. He’s like, man, you literally brought everybody to their knees. You know, that’s what he said. And he wrote when he wrote to me, he’s like, he just crushed it. And ah…

Michael: Ah man…

Joe Costello: So it was it was cool to hear.

Michael: It was a team effort, man, that me and those guys did a color guard, you know,

Joe Costello: Yeah,

Michael: When they came in to dude I mean it, it like talk about bringing a respect to the room. You know, these guys handled the flag and brought it in and that’s what set the stage. You know, boom, they come up, walk up right there and set it all in place. And then all I got to do is open my mouth. And I’ve done the anthem enough. You know, thankfully, there’s some confidence there. Yes. It’s always a really great experience. Thank you for telling me that. It’s awesome!

Joe Costello: Yeah, no, it it just, you know, like whatever. That just when he told me, I was like, wow, I wish I was there for that. But

Michael: It means a lot

Joe Costello: Was I was out of town. But before we get off of the national anthem thing and move to the singing program. When you sing it. What are the different configurations of how you sing it? Are you always doing acappella? Are you sometimes playing your guitar and singing it? Are you sometimes singing it with tracks?

Michael: It’s always been acappella.

Joe Costello: Really?

Michael: Always

Joe Costello: Wow!

Michael: Oh, it always been acappella, and I try to stay pretty, pretty true to it. And the reason I do it is because I can get lost in a song pretty easy if I get way too emotional or passionate or try to get too fancy with it. And that’s one of those that that, you know, no one I want to remember the lyrics. That’s pretty

Joe Costello: Yeah,

Michael: Important. Yeah. I don’t want to get famous

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: On YouTube that way,

Joe Costello: Yeah. There’s enough

Michael: But ah…

Joe Costello: Bloopers out there man. You don’t

Michael: Yeah [laughter]

Joe Costello: Need to be one of those statistics for sure…

Michael: Right!

Joe Costello: [laughter]

Michael: Right. But it’s it’s when I get done with a D-Backs. One of the coaches came out of the D-Backs dugout and shook my hand on the way off. He said, man, thank you. That was fantastic. Thanks for staying true to the original melody. Appreciate it. Because I can only imagine that those guys I mean they don’t sign up for hearing thousands of anthems, but they get it. You know, they have. They

Joe Costello: Yeah, yeah, yeah

Michael: They get all those anthems over and over again. And I’m sure they’ve heard a little bit everything. So but again, again, data, I’m saying like I took that as OK. You know, that’s

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Important to a lot of people that they can sing along with you. When you do that. So I keep it pretty simple. Add some dynamics and a couple little parts where, you know, you know, when it starts to build. People are OK. I put a little unfeigned there and they like it, you know. But I try to stay true to it and do it acapella. But I do have

Joe Costello: Cool!

Michael: I do have one, one funny anthem story dude

Joe Costello: Do it!

Michael: This is…[laughter]

Michael: So I got asked, I got asked to sing the anthem for the “Rugged Maniac” race. It’s kind of like the “Spartan” race. It’s it’s it’s it’s

Joe Costello: Ok.

Michael: Own deal. It’s it’s a

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Different brand. But they do like 20 different obstacles that people have to jump over fire. And then they they all drink beer together at the end of this race and they call it the “Rugged Maniac”, you know. And so everybody gets rugged and does these races. Well, you know, they asked me to do the anthem and they gave me two free tickets to run the race. I hit my brother-in-law up. And, you know, he likes athletics like I do. “Yo man lets do this crazy race”, and I’m gonna sing

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: The anthem. And so I had him record me and I was getting ready to race and and I was gonna go without my shirt on. You know, and I just told ask the guys, hey, man can I sing this without my shirt I’m like, “Rugged Maniac” music do go for it. [laughter] It’s like literally the only time I would ever get a chance to sing the national anthem without

Joe Costello: With no shirt

Michael: Without my shirt

Joe Costello: [laughter]

Michael: [laughter]

Michael: It’s just totally stupid, but I’m like and, you know, bro, I was like twenty, twenty five pushups in the back before I went up.

Joe Costello: Right. [laughs]

Michael: You know, [laughs]

Joe Costello: Right. [laughs]

Michael: I Was

Joe Costello: The veins would be popping out of your…

Michael: I was literally out of breath [sings] “Oh oh say can…” [laughter] Because I was doing push ups. But it was so ridiculous. So I told my brother-in-law dude, you gotta get a video of this man because I will never get another chance to sing the national anthem shirtless again in my life. [laughs]

Joe Costello: So you do have that video?

Michael: I think so, yeah, I’ve got

Joe Costello: Oh man,

Michael: I’ll have to go back on my phone. But

Joe Costello: We’ll have to…

Michael: Anyway…

Joe Costello: Yeah, I’ll need to see that.

Michael: It’s ridiculous!

Joe Costello: Yeah. All right. Cool. Well, we’re going to move on because this is really important. This is I think out of all the, obviously we’ve talked about a lot of great things. But my, my hope is that this singing program that you’ve put together, um will bring a lot of value to people that are like…so here’s a prime example. Not, not, that, you know, I, I would take your program, but I don’t, I think it is too late for me. So

Michael: [laughs] I get it.

Joe Costello: But I mean, I literally

Michael: I get it.

Joe Costello: The way I got to college was, I was a classical vocal major because that was

Michael: Wow man!

Joe Costello: The only way I could get in. Because I sang in chorus all my life from elementary school. I sang solos with the choir. I did all. And when it came time to go to music school, I, I was not prepared by my band, my band director.

Michael: Right.

Joe Costello: And all I wanted to do was play drums. And he always forced

Michael: WOW!

Joe Costello: Me to play sax and all that you’d like in the band. But he always had too many drummers, so I could never.

Michael: Right.

Joe Costello: And that’s all I ever wanted to go and do. So

Michael: Yeah, yeah, yeah…

Joe Costello: In order to get into college, you need to audition on

Michael: Exactly.

Joe Costello: Marimba and timpani and snare drum and drum set

Michael: And you weren’t ready

Joe Costello: Not ready. So I went and sang and I got in

Michael: No way man, dude you been holding

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Back on me? I had no idea of bro!

Joe Costello: Yeah. And so I think I did either one and a half or two and a half years of classical vocal training as a baritone

Michael: WOW!

Joe Costello: Sang

Michael: Man!

Joe Costello: In all of these…

Michael: That’s legit.

Joe Costello: Musicals. And, you know, I don’t know how much dancing I did. I probably did a little bit too, but I’m not going to fess up to it. So anyhow.

Michael: [laughs] I got you

Joe Costello: Long story short is I think this, I think this program is…I would love to be able to sing like you. I’d love to build a sing pop music. You know, like I listen to pop music and and I just to, to make it sound and have all of the cool things that it needs to have and sound natural. That’s never gonna happen for me because I just I got too much going on and we’ll leave it there. But.

Michael: Right, right, right.

Joe Costello: A.) I think this this program could be really helpful because obviously, you know, that I get to listen and watch to a lot of entertainers through

Michael: Yup, sure.

Joe Costello: Through my business at Onstage and if they just took some time and effort to put towards these things, you know, I think it could help them go to the next level. It could just without them even realizing it. It could just bring them way up, because a lot of times that’s what you mainly listen to. Nobody’s going to critique somebodies strumming of a pop tune while they’re singing it, but they’re going to really listen to the voice. Right?

Michael: Exactly.

Joe Costello: So

Michael: Exactly.

Joe Costello: Like you said, your voices, what’s carried you through everything. So, so let’s let’s talk about this. I’m going to put in the show notes the link of where to get to the program

Michael: Thank you, man. Yeah.

Joe Costello: And all that other stuff. And at the end, we’ll talk about that. But for now, what I wanted to do was my first question was, what is the starting age for somebody to, to do your program?

Michael: I would say. I like, I like ten and up being a good a good starting age, you know. And again, having kids and noticing kind of the way they learn that, that you you don’t really get much strong interest until somebody is ten or older, you know. For me, I

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: You know, I was interested in seven and I sang it because my you know, I think my dance. “You could do this, you know? Here you go, buddy. You know, I gonna help you learn the song.” And I got up there. But again, when I auditioned when I was eleven for that that community play, you know, I wanted to do it and I enjoyed it. Ended up being a great experience, you know. So I don’t think until, you know, you’re over ten. Do you really get a hunger for something and there’s, there’s those unique cases, you know, course

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: You’ve seen them all. You know, America’s Got Talent. You see these little kids, you know, but but the passion is got to be they got to be motivated to some extent to put in the time to, to work on this. And it’s a little bit of an invisible instrument ya know what I mean…

Joe Costello: Yes.

Michael: It’s like, it’s set inside of our bodies, but we use it every day. And so it’s can be taken for granted. How much of an instrument it is and how much you need to develop it. But I would say ten and up for sure…

Joe Costello: Cool.

Joe Costello: So do you want to give us an overview of the program? You know, at a high

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: Level. And then, like I said, I’ll put it in the show, notes the link to it, because I know when you go to the Web site like you literally lay it out. I know I looked at the whole program and it’s cool. You’re literally telling everyone ahead of time what they’re going to learn and

Michael: Exactly!

Joe Costello: Everything that’s involved. But since, you know, this, this potentially could only be on the podcast and maybe not go on to the YouTube channel where I can, you know, have a visual on there.

Michael: Sure.

Joe Costello: Can you explain the program itself and how people, you know, how they get involved with doing it with you?

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I shot sixty three videos for this thing. That was a lot of, a lot of videos. And then I broke it into 12 modules. And so you could really put it into like a twelve week program and take each module one week at a time. You know, or somebody could go straight, something that you struggling with. You know, but I mean, the big topics for me are, you know, breathing and breath control. That’s a big part of it. Placement where to place the sound in your body so that you can best sing whatever style you want to sing or sing without strain or maintain your voice for three, four hours at a time and not lose your voice. Like these are all placement so that when I want to hit module four, I get into the rhythm of the program like four through eight is the meat of the program. And that all has to do with placement and learning how to sing in your mixed voice. We’re just mixing the, the chest voice and head voice together. You know, I can sing down here my chest voice [sings], I can up here in my head voice [sings]. I can put them both together [sings]. You know, like when I put

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Them together. That’s the money. That’s the power. And that’s a lot of people. They are afraid of high notes because they, they think they just got to float them or they just don’t sing them at all. Or, you know, if they’re gonna sing it. Oh, they’re going to end up straining. Well, you’re carrying your chest voice too high, if you’re straining and you’re yelling, you’ve got to mix those two together, what I call the mixed voice. So, man, you know, placement and learning how to master your mixed voice and then vocal health and stage presence. You know, so that pretty much covers everything when you go from breathing to placement to, to mix to to vocal health and stage presence. It’s all in there. Everything I’ve learned in the last 20 years, there’s probably a lot of exercises that can expand on which that, you know, maybe, you know, the the 2.0 version

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: You that comes out.

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Yeah. But but I really tried to get everything in there that helps me be a singer because I’m a feet on the street singer. You know, I’m not

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Just talking about information. I’m actually using these principles. So the way I’ve got a set up is people can you know, they can get it’s one forty nine for the entire program and it gets sixty three videos. Twelve week, twelve module program. But what I was telling you, what I’m working on now that my wife and I were just talking about is creating a subscription model because what I’m noticing is that even people that are motivated by my program, very few go all the way to the end. Very few of them finish. I got a buddy of mine in Nashville, a very successful investor. He’s actually a drummer. His name is Paul, but he also loves to sing. And so he purchased my program outright and he was honest with me the other day, said, “Mike, I haven’t got past the first or second module”. And he said, “I need the accountability”. And and so we were talking about maybe doing like a subscription type thing. Hey, you know, pay this small amount a month and you have access to all these modules, every one of these 50 vocal warm ups and exercises in this thing. You have access to all of that. And then you can meet one on one with me, whether it be zoom or whatever, on a regular basis with a little bit of an upgrade. And then I can tell you how to apply that, you know, and he and he was telling me from his experience, with drum teachers that he uses online like those have been the most effective. So, man, that just turned the light on with me, like, you know, would give people opportunity that maybe don’t want to pay that big chunk or whatever, or it would seem too big or too overwhelming like, no here, let me, let me walk you through it. And here’s all the information for a real low, low price. And then let’s touch base and let me help you as a mentor. So

Joe Costello: Right.

Michael: That’s kind of the next stage for me is kind of developing different pricing points and ways that can best serve people, because I know, you know me may not sing for free. You know, the

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Valuably myself and putting a price on my singing has been one of the hardest things

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: I’ve had and learned. But I’m realizing now I have a gift. It’s helped me feed my family. And there are a lot of people that ask me right now. I’m doing a lot of online, you know, Facebook lives and everybody says, “Man, how can I sing like you?” You know, I want to you know, I always get this question. As a matter of

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Fact, when I stepped off the stage at Rob Thomas, one of the stagehands said, “Man, I want to sing like you!” And I said, well, I do happen to have a program. Three days later, he purchased the program. And I was able to kind of pitch it to him. And I don’t know how far he’s got in the program, but like, I’m a walking billboard. I sing all the time. You know,

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: Like people, people want want access. But for me, I’m concerned about people having the best access possible and it being easy, man, what I want to be easy for them to learn from me. And there’s obviously gonna be a lot of free content as well, you know, that I’m trying to put out more and more. But yeah, that’s kind of the overview of the program and that’s what it looks like. And I don’t know if that answers your question

Joe Costello: No,

Michael: Fully.

Joe Costello: No, that’s

Michael: But.

Joe Costello: It. That’s. Yeah. And it’s cool, I think that’s a good idea. I’ve been involved in some, you know, just business type programs where the whole thing of doing subscription based and walks you through the process and you kind of check off that you’ve done week one and it and it makes you then say, ok, now you’re on the week two, and you walk them through. And then the other cool thing that you might think of that you and I have never talked about, so we’re going to do it live right here

Michael: Nice.

Joe Costello: Right now

Michael: Nice.

Joe Costello: Is you might want to do like a private Facebook group of people that have bought your program.

Michael: Yeah.

Joe Costello: And so they can it’s a, it’s a place for encouragement and say, hey, you know, I’m working on week two and I’m working on the breathing part and or whatever it is. And, and I’ve just for some reason, this always happens when I try to hit this note or whatever. And it creates

Michael: Exactly!

Joe Costello: This this community. And then

Michael: That’s it

Joe Costello: As long as you’re active in that, that group and you’re kind of, you know, encouraging people that, that it’s an extra amount of Michael Land cares, it’s just like he didn’t sell his program. And he doesn’t you know, he’s not involved any longer. It’s

Michael: Exactly.

Joe Costello: Like you’re literally in there,

Michael: I love that man…

Joe Costello: You know?

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: I love that

Joe Costello: So…

Michael: Because I’ve never felt good about. Let me just get their money and move on. You know, that’s, that’s not what

Joe Costello: Well, you’re not that kind of guy anyhow,

Michael: It’s, it, its…Exact…

Joe Costello: So you should never.

Michael: Not

Joe Costello: It’s not

Michael: Right.

Joe Costello: In your blood, so

Michael: Oh, I

Joe Costello: You shouldn’t feel bad

Michael: I think that’s what’s been hard about me. And why why I’ve hesitated in marketing this thing is because not having a community aspect set up that

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Allows me to, you know, because I think right up there with singing is is my relational side, you know, and enjoying connecting with people that goes hand in hand for me. You know, like

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: I can’t just sing to a screen nonstop and there’d be no interaction like that.

Joe Costello: Correct.

Michael: I know. That’s why I couldn’t just be an online singer. Like, I need to see people, man.

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Even if you’re sitting at a dinner and they’re not actively listening. I know that I’m creating and I’ll be honest with these people. And I’m a part

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Of what’s going on. There is a relational aspect. So I think that’s great, man. I

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: Love that idea. So, I’m gonna write that down as soon as I get off here, bro, you know I am? So…

Joe Costello: [laughs] All right, so real quick, because I’ve. This is where we’re close. This I actually wanted to go an hour and this is cool because we’re

Michael: Awesome!

Joe Costello: Like right on the money, even though you might have wanted to cut out thirty minutes ago. [laughs]

Michael: I’m good, man. Hey, man, you don’t you don’t have to twist my arm to talk about singing and

Joe Costello: All right,

Michael: All this

Joe Costello: Cool.

Michael: Stuff that I love, bro. You know that. [laughs]

Joe Costello: So what is your ultimate goal moving forward with your career?

Michael: I think, I think it’s, it’s having an authentic brand that people can access and be better because of it. And feeling the satisfaction of knowing that I’ve made every effort possible to leverage my gift to the world. You know, like that’s really that, that, that’s the goal. I’m going to keep writing music, you know, and to keep promoting my music. I’m going to keep singing, keep sharing my love for music. But I think it really is, having, you know, staying authentic and having a brand that’s accessible to the world, if the world wants it, it leases, it’s accessible and where everybody can access it. And it’s great being, you know, a local artist with a local fan base. And that’s been healthy for me. But now I’m at the point where I’m like, how can I take this and then give this to the world if the world wants it. And we’ve may we live in a day and age where that’s totally possible.

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: It’s just hard for me to approach new things. It really is like when I feel something new comes, I get, I freak out man and emotions get involved. And that’s why you have the balance of a good wife or a good brother like Joe, like you, you know, where you can just say not you just got it’s just business. Just do this or just price

Joe Costello: Yeah.

Michael: It at this or just here’s what you say. Here’s how you lay it out. And and you just need a system, you know, put a system, you know, like these types of things that that, you know, aren’t my strength. But that’s where I that’s the speed bump that I’m hitting right now. Like, all right, now it’s time to get into place, because that is the ultimate goal, is to make my gift accessible to the world and make sure that it stays authentic. That’s it bro!.

Joe Costello: Well, like it or not, brother, it’s out there now because when this gets published the world, the world’s gonna know about

Michael: Come

Joe Costello: It. So,

Michael: On, man.

Joe Costello: Yeah,

Michael: It’s exciting!

Joe Costello: You’re going to get busy. Before I let you go. Is there anything else that I forgot to mention that you, any subjects that we didn’t touch upon?

Michael: Man, I think I think that’s it. Man, I think, I think you just you just helped me with the C.A.R. thing, you know, the consistency, the attitude and relationships that, that right there man, I think kind of sums it up for me. You know, and I know you could put integrity in there as well. You know, like it’s it’s all all part

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: Of it. You know, and if I was something different outside these doors that I was with this this crew behind me on this picture [points to photo behind him] with my family, you know, saying like you, we noticed that, you

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: Know, that stuff is elevated in our society. When you see somebody that’s, you know, it lacks integrity. And that’s why, you know, I am a man of faith. And these things are important for me. And, you know,

Joe Costello: Yup.

Michael: To stay true to who I am um but that, I can’t think of anything else. Man, it was so thorough and just honored

Joe Costello: Cool.

Michael: To be be the first, be part of the show. The Joe Costello

Joe Costello: Well,

Michael: Show that’s got a ring to it, man.

Joe Costello: Hey,

Michael: Come on.

Joe Costello: Let’s hope so. [laughter] All right, so

Michael: I hear you buddy

Joe Costello: So the last thing is where where can people find you on the Internet? Like give your, all your handles where wherever they are,

Michael: Yep,

Joe Costello: They can

Michael: Yep.

Joe Costello: Find you.

Michael: So the three main ones at the website, michaellandmusic.com. michaellandmusic.com. And then on Facebook, my Facebook fan page is facebook.com/michaellandmusic. And then on Instagram, it’s @realmichaelland. And that’s ah that…those are the main three that I use. And the other website has a singing program on there. You just click on the singing program tab or click down, you’ll see a video on that. And I’m always accessible for questions. People always sit me up. Personal messages on Facebook or Instagram. I love that. You know, I love

Joe Costello: Yup

Michael: Being able to talk to people and, and connect and see this. This is going to get better. The more more, you know, whether it be a kid talking about a private Facebook group or something, that just makes it all more accessible. That’s that’s the goal. But those are the three main, main spots.

Joe Costello: Awesome brother. Well, listen, this is really special for me, having wanted to do this with you for God, we talked about it for so long. And

Michael: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Costello: And in this is this is exciting to have you on here and to, you know, let everyone understand who you are, what you’re about,

Michael: Right on!

Joe Costello: You know, let them listen to your music. And then hopefully people that need help with their their voice and singing sign up for the singing program. And hopefully more more people that live in the Arizona area will come out and see you play at the resorts and different venues and things like that. So

Michael: Right.

Joe Costello: I’m really glad we could do this. And I appreciate your time man.

Michael: Hey, man, my privilege, Joe. Appreciate it, man. I’m honored. And I love to see the action, man. The fact that you’re getting this done, you know, action is contagious, man. It’s good. It’s good. You got me fired up, man.

Joe Costello: Oh,

Michael: You really do.

Joe Costello: Good.

Michael: Thank you.

Joe Costello: All right, brother. All right. Thank you so much.

Michael: You bet man, my privilege!